Barbell rows suck?

Post by **galapogos** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:25 pm

We've always known that the barbell bent over row is one of the best back builders, for either hypertrophy or strength. However recently I've read more than 1 article saying they pretty much suck. The claim is that the neural drive required to keep the body in the bent over position dilutes our ability to then maximally contract the back musculature. Kind of makes sense to me since we can almost always handle more weight on single limb lifts than double since we have less to "focus" on?

Wondering though if the bent over dumbbell row or cable row would be a better substitute...

Sufian · Post by **Sufian** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:43 pm

quite true, but barbell rows, when u get it heavy and right, and the DOMS sets in the next few days right at your lats and upper back, well, no other exercise produces this kind of DOMS for me.

Canuck eh · Post by **Canuck eh** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:39 pm

I find for lighter weights I like the barbell rows, since I can get a nice strong contraction, but for moving maximal weights, I prefer the dumbell (2pts) or cable row. Either seems to require less effort to maintain core stability than the barbell row.

vicvic · Post by **vicvic** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:43 pm

cable row seems to hit my back better (or my bent over just sucks)

xarope · Post by **xarope** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:22 pm

I vaguely remember reading recently that for pulling exercises, you need to put the focus on the end movement e.g. for pullups you need to really feel the contraction at the top and hold it there for a bit longer, and so similarly for barbell rows.

Sufian · Post by **Sufian** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:22 am

definitely should hold the contraction, as well as the end of the extension, where the stretch feeling comes in.

Post by **galapogos** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:34 am

A Thibs article from t-nation?

Sufian · Post by **Sufian** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:41 am

Its from trial and error, and also gut feel. May be wrong, or even harmful though.

xarope · Post by **xarope** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:52 am

It makes sense; in pressing movements usually you are going from weakest to strongest position, whereas pulling is the opposite. So in pressing movements, acceleration from bottom position really works the weakest ROM, and of course the lockout at the top still requiring muscular tension.

In pulling however, you can accelerate very strongly from the start, so you could theoretically pull hard and then ride the bar to the apex of the pull and down again with only force being exerted at the starting position and none in the finishing position.

I'm looking at this from the point of view of pullups and bent over rows, not sure if this also applies to deadlift though, although I guess if the knees weren't in the way that may make sense too, as otherwise toward the end of the movement the mechanics of the movement allow you to be very strong toward the end rather than with pullups and bent over rows?

AhBen · Post by **AhBen** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:14 am

Most people are not getting the benefits from this exercise because basically they are just humping the bar...

xarope · Post by **xarope** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:03 pm

AhBen wrote:Most people are not getting the benefits from this exercise because basically they are just humping the bar...

very true that... the number of people I see in califit "humping" 100kg with an ROM of about 2 inches...

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:14 pm

time to switch to cable rows??? using the long bar...will it wrk better??

AhBen · Post by **AhBen** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:52 am

xarope wrote: very true that... the number of people I see in califit "humping" 100kg with an ROM of about 2 inches...

I dont see anyone humping a 100kg bar...most of the time,its around 40-50kg with the thin and short non-Olympic bar...

Well,to put it nicely,dont say they hump the bar,they are actually doing "power rows" to accustom the body to using heavier weights...

Indeed,last time Peter even suggested I do more "power rows" as I was doing them too strict...

Sufian · Post by **Sufian** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:00 pm

My form may not be as strict as it should, but I feel that sometimes going heavier than you can with total strict form really creates this customisation to heavy weights thingy that ben mentions.

AhBen · Post by **AhBen** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:11 pm

But beginners hitting 40-50kg shouldn't do "power rows",I feel.

Post by **galapogos** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:15 pm

AhBen wrote:But beginners hitting 40-50kg shouldn't do "power rows",I feel.

Unless they're chicks. That would be a pretty strong row!

AhBen · Post by **AhBen** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:22 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7zclEqnEhQ

This is what I mean-use your hips to jerk it up a bit.

Whoever came up with the term "power row" probably wants to feel more pro and hardcore coz it is basically a "cheat row",replacing "cheat" with "power" definitely sounds more pro and hardcore.

There is also this exercise called "power curl".

Sufian · Post by **Sufian** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:55 pm

that row just sucks badly!! haha

I would not call it a row even. I would call it a "power" shrug.

Post by **galapogos** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:57 pm

Power deadlift?

Mr Enigma · Post by **Mr Enigma** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:05 am

lol what is that...

Weib · Post by **Weib** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:57 am

Barbell tummy hump.

AhBen · Post by **AhBen** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:40 am

This is a better example of a power row

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1HSt3ynLMg

AhBen · Post by **AhBen** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:38 pm

This is a badass DB power row vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ufv7Lwir48

alex · Post by **alex** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:06 am

For bb rows, you have to either squeeze at the end of the concentric phase or slow down in the transition of the concentric phase towards the eccentric phase to feel the back working.My opinion.