Row to have better Pull-Up Strength, Deadlift

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:48 pm

Well since I'm not a trainer anymore I have lots of "secrets" to give away, ha ha. No lar, just my observations. This is absolutely no scientific basis in what I'm writing; I just know it's working for me.

I never gave the bent-over row any credit at first. I thought it was some extra exercise that didn't need to be done. What's rowing compared to benching or pressing or pulling? Extra.

But I remember something Peter told me last year. He said I had scapular winging because they was simply no muscle between my shoulder blades, and the solution was rows. Initially I started rowing to complement benching, then I came upon an unexpected benefit.

I wasn't doing weighted-pull-ups, just sets of bw for numbers. I was straining the last reps for the last sets. Previously I had to strain quite a bit to get my head over the bar when tired. But I had much less of a problem this time, because I could distinctly feel some muscle between my shoulder blades pinching themselves together, thus bringing my chin up.

That was the biggest problem I faced when going for 1RM weighted pulls. If I had the strength to pull my face up to the bar, I really had to strain get my chin over. If I had trained rows then, I pretty sure I would have the extra muscle in my back to put my chin over for a bigger pull. I haven't tested this "theory" yet, but when I get rid of all my fats and start weighted pulls again next year, I'm pretty sure heavy rows is going to help.

Another thing, rows really help with deadlifts in keeping the upper back straight. First, let me say I don't subscribe at all to the notion of upper-back-rounded-lower-back-straight. I find it a lame excuse to round backs. If you are Eric Cressey and regularly deadlifting 3-4 times your bw, you can jolly well dl any damn way you want. But if you are not, why not just keep your whole damn back as straight as possible? Sure, you will lose some form on 1RM attempts, but I don't believe the stupid upper-back-rounded-lower-back-straight notion. In fact, I am very sure if you upper back rounds your lower back will round as well, it's just a matter of how much. Forgive me for the rant, but this stupid notion makes beginners and newbies think they are Eric Cresseys when they simply dling with lousy form.

Anway, rows do strengthen the upper back to keep it as straight as possible during deadlifts. When you have the strength to keep your back straight, you will have the confidence to lift more, thus increasing your 1RM indirectly. I found this out this year as well. I don't know how to describe it, just that when you know you upper back can take it, you lift will follow through. It's impossible to have a straight upper back and rounded lower back. I know for myself if my upper back rounds on takeoff, it's just a matter of how much lower back will round. If a little fine, if a lot then too bad, I ain't risking it.

So for better pull-up and deadlift strength, do bent-over rows.

Sufian · Post by **Sufian** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:08 am

Bent-over rows sure do carry over to better pull-ups and deads. I realise this as well.

Post by **galapogos** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:45 am

Not for me. My rows are strong but pullup/deadlifts suck.

Weib · Post by **Weib** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:39 am

must be bend over rows? Cannot be db rows or seated but its quite expected that if you're posterior chain is weak, all posterior chained exercises would suck too..

Post by **galapogos** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:42 am

Before I got injured my bent over rows were close to 100kg for 5 reps. Not too shabby I'd say.

Anyway, the load for bent over rows is so much lower than that of the deadlift, I don't see how they can help in spinal stabilization. What works for 60-70% of your 1RM might not work for your 1RM.

Also, I kinda agree with what Dave Barr said about bent over rows and what he called "central drive dilution", i.e. doing too many things at the same time will lead to decreased muscle recruitment.

Weib · Post by **Weib** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:21 am

personally i don't really like bent over barbell row, it adds alot of lumbar pressure and forcing a flexion if you go heavy, something you don't really need.

The only problem is that dumbbells don't get any heavier...zzz

Post by **galapogos** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:55 am

Weib wrote:personally i don't really like bent over barbell row, it adds alot of lumbar pressure and forcing a flexion if you go heavy, something you don't really need.

The only problem is that dumbbells don't get any heavier...zzz

60kg heavy enough for you?

vicvic · Post by **vicvic** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:46 pm

how about that exercise where you load up only one side of the barbell, and plant the other side of the barbell to the corner of the wall to do a row?

Post by **galapogos** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:12 pm

T bar row.

lips · Post by **lips** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:49 pm

t-bar row is not 3-d movement liao hor?

Weib · Post by **Weib** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:08 pm

Your 60kg DB rows was there before you got your 120 bench.

so technically your 1 rm for rows could be >60kg now.

Post by **galapogos** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:12 pm

It is most definitely. I'm already doing 62-63 for 3x3

However, my pullups and deadlifts are not improving as postulated.

Jordon · Post by **Jordon** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:04 pm

ALRIGHT! THIS ONE MUST TEST THEN KNOW, GIMME ER SAY 4 WEEKS I GO START ROWING~!!!

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:37 am

galapogos wrote:Before I got injured my bent over rows were close to 100kg for 5 reps. Not too shabby I'd say.

Anyway, the load for bent over rows is so much lower than that of the deadlift, I don't see how they can help in spinal stabilization. What works for 60-70% of your 1RM might not work for your 1RM.

Also, I kinda agree with what Dave Barr said about bent over rows and what he called "central drive dilution", i.e. doing too many things at the same time will lead to decreased muscle recruitment.

Kettlebells swings increase dl numbers even though they weigh a fraction. I have no scientific explanation, but until someone comes up with one I suspect there are certain non-maximal exercises that do carryover to maximal lifts.

Is there a lot of things going on bent-over rows? I find squats to be much more of a hassle. Central drive diluation, yeah, now I have a much more scientific excuse instead of simply saying I can't squat for shit.

AhBen · Post by **AhBen** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:55 am

For better deadlifts,do more rows,pullups and front squats
For better rows,do more pullups,deadlifts and curls
For better pullups,do more rows,deadlifts and curls

Just do them all la!

Weib · Post by **Weib** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:43 pm

KB swings FTW?

i think chains would be beneficial for exponential loading to get pass the sticking point though.

Jordon · Post by **Jordon** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:48 pm

its true that i find swinging the kb helps me a bit. duno how much but i think my lockout became stronger due to swings.

Sufian · Post by **Sufian** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:00 pm

AhBen wrote:For better deadlifts,do more rows,pullups and front squats
For better rows,do more pullups,deadlifts and curls
For better pullups,do more rows,deadlifts and curls

Just do them all la!

freak.. u are actually spot on.