Evidence based results............

[jerry.mobbs]

Ok Louis, I may be getting old and my eyesight may be fading, but did you lose any weight during this period?

http://body-blitz.blogspot.com/2008_03_16_archive.html

[KEVIN LIM]

Eh Louis, dun get me wrong but you are someone I think will make a superb friend. I just wana ask in all honesty what is stopping you from Crossfitting? Honesty.... No sugar Coating or politically correct answers ok?

[Weib]

Well I don't have to endorse a system to do circuit style training, like wise i don't have to buy into a specific philosophy of training just because I like it.

Moreover my shift of my professional career is more towards rehab and injury prevention, most people can't move properly and you want to CF them?

End of the day, there many elements both camps can learn from each other, but that doesn't mean you have to be affiliated and stick to one like a religion nor preach it like it was from the bible. GPP maybe important and great for general public but its not like the be all end all for everyone, if i had a time to do GPP or to do prehab/rehab/mobility drills, i'd choose to do the latter it'll be more beneficial for people in the long run and in their daily lives without aches and pains rather than be someone who can FGB with the best score.

of course if i had the time to do both, i will.

I believe most people need to know how progress them from A to B in specific movements unless they're advance with their training, but for newbies its not okay for them to have the - here-is-how-its-done-since-you-have-relative-good-form-okay-now-do-20-reps-for-time-then-run-another-400m-and-do-another-20.

I find as planned randomness without a specific motive of training and no foresight at all, all in the name of GPP?
Thats quite hard to justify anything.

[jerry.mobbs]

Well I don't have to endorse a system to do circuit style training, like wise i don't have to buy into a specific philosophy of training just because I like it.

.........
Thats quite hard to justify anything.

I think you have your threads confused. We were talking CF on the other thread. But since you insist on repeating the same mistake over and over again, I'll keep repeating it until you get it into that thick skull of yours.......

CF is not circuit style training.

Here in this thread, we should be talking about your attempt at body recomposition.....

If we look at the results so far for someone who is young, injury free, access to top notch coaches 'who are in the trenches', access to good food, good equipment, supportive bunch of buddies on the web (and I do include myself in that)......

fat loss = zero result

ippt pass = zero result

do you want me to go looking for more?

[galapogos]

I think part of Louis's "problem" is that he doesn't stick with what his programs long and accurate enough to yield the results. If he sticks to them, results will probably be better. Especially on the diet side. He's not really "living a little" anymore, he's livin la vida loca.

[aaron]

hahahhahah hey jerry, i think louis posted that in reply to the question by kevin lol nice jig there goi anyhows.

hmm i reckon hes louis is improving la, from last time 10 dumplings meal by meal to now at least sticking to his meal plans most of the time, theres much less to kp about what. though honestly louis i think you're a lil too afraid of dropping the calories, ever since the beginning of time weightloss was associated with cal in<cal out and sure ppl are hungry but its a diet damnit. i mean like when we do the vdiet, if we were so scared to drop calories hell we'd be drink thirty shakes a day with olive oil and fish caps but we stick to a recommended like 8/9? i respect the cf guys only cos they're comfortable with the uncomfortable aha and i think that says alot.

[Weib]

Well I don't have to endorse a system to do circuit style training, like wise i don't have to buy into a specific philosophy of training just because I like it.

.........
Thats quite hard to justify anything.

I think you have your threads confused. We were talking CF on the other thread. But since you insist on repeating the same mistake over and over again, I'll keep repeating it until you get it into that thick skull of yours.......

CF is not circuit style training.

Here in this thread, we should be talking about your attempt at body recomposition.....

If we look at the results so far for someone who is young, injury free, access to top notch coaches 'who are in the trenches', access to good food, good equipment, supportive bunch of buddies on the web (and I do include myself in that)......

fat loss = zero result

ippt pass = zero result

do you want me to go looking for more?

I do my own experiments on own training and diet along because there so many variables, as i'm eager to learn more and there is so much to learn so much to try. So what if i failed to produce what you deem as exceptional, did i say i'm living to please anyone or to make a statement? I'm doing this for myself and my curiosity and if i get to pick up 1 tiny detail even if its a failure, i'm happy.

Call me a fat boy, a ippt failure(which i pass btw) if it humours you.. frankly all this digs are getting old.
I have my focus on what i wish to achieve from what i do, that's my prerogative init?

well i see it as circuit style training or a giant set and nothing more, i have nothing more to be convinced that its more than that because there is nothing that focus on the design/progression/advancement but a all lump into one regime.
Philosophies are great but execution is horrid and it'll stay that way until they revise the program and give some thought in design.

until then i'm not convinced its not more than circuit style training with planned randomness without a bigger plan in place, you can quote me on this and prove me wrong when things do change, i'll be happy to admit i'm wrong

Difference btwn me and you, is that i'm willing to try/fail and admit i'm wrong and redo it properly to evolve and be open to suggestions rather than having to stick to my guns with my affiliations and think its flawless with "evidence".
They seriously don't mean anything to me in learning how to train myself and others, unlike Mike boyle and coaches of SC.com who has patiently explained their point of views and their perceptions which i can buy into it because i can agree upon and know what they're looking for.

I was lucky enough to converse with some via emails and the forum on help regarding rehab, and it helped me tremendously with my work and understanding.

So excuse me for not thinking CF so highly, i have no use for it.

[jerry.mobbs]

I do my own experiments on own training and diet along because there so many variables, as i'm eager to learn more and there is so much to learn so much to try. So what if i failed to produce what you deem as exceptional, did i say i'm living to please anyone or to make a statement? I'm doing this for myself and my curiosity and if i get to pick up 1 tiny detail even if its a failure, i'm happy.

Call me a fat boy, a ippt failure(which i pass btw) if it humours you.. frankly all this digs are getting old.
I have my focus on what i wish to achieve from what i do, that's my prerogative init?

Absolutely its your perogative...

and the results are

fat loss = zero (unless your standing in front of one of those funny mirrors at Disney World that make you look taller)

ippt = a pass thats only good enough to prove your breathing and turned up on test day

spin this anyway you want, you cannot argue with results man.....

well i see it as circuit style training or a giant set and nothing more, i have nothing more to be convinced that its more than that because there is nothing that focus on the design/progression/advancement but a all lump into one regime.
Philosophies are great but execution is horrid and it'll stay that way until they revise the program and give some thought in design.

until then i'm not convinced its not more than circuit style training with planned randomness without a bigger plan in place, you can quote me on this and prove me wrong when things do change, i'll be happy to admit i'm wrong

Just for your benefit, I'll repeat myself again

Well now you let your self down. You just mentioned Metabolic conditioning and Strength endurance. Hellooooo, Louis...... Read the freely available crossfit information thats out there

TUESDAY 090203
Back Squat 5-5-5-5-5 reps

WEDNESDAY 090128
Thruster 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 reps

SATURDAY 090124
"CrossFit Total"
Back squat, 1 rep
Shoulder Press, 1 rep
Deadlift, 1 rep

Taken from http://www.crossfit.com since Jan 21

And do we need to mention

WEDNESDAY 090121
For time:
15 Handstand push-ups
1 L Pull-up
13 Handstand push-ups..........
......
1 Handstand push-up
15 L Pull-ups

Hardly metcon

Which part of Back Squat 5-5-5-5-5 looks like circuits to you?

Difference btwn me and you, is that i'm willing to try/fail and admit i'm wrong and redo it properly to evolve and be open to suggestions rather than having to stick to my guns with my affiliations and think its flawless with "evidence".
They seriously don't mean anything to me in learning how to train myself and others, unlike Mike boyle and coaches of SC.com who has patiently explained their point of views and their perceptions which i can buy into it because i can agree upon and know what they're looking for.

I was lucky enough to converse with some via emails and the forum on help regarding rehab, and it helped me tremendously with my work and understanding.

So excuse me for not thinking CF so highly, i have no use for it.

If you have no use for CF, then thats fine. Just stop talking about it as if you know what your talking about.

I await your gold ippt performance with baited breath using boyles methods. But I guess we will see peace in the middle east before we can see that.

Tell you what, I will make you an open challenge and put my money where my mouth is.

If you can post a program from strengthcoach.com and actually follow it, and log your results and get a gold ippt pass before dec 31 2009, then I will give you S$500 in cash.

Hows that for motivation?

[Canuck eh]

At some point watching trainwrecks loses some of the fun factor... you already know how it's going to end.

I don't think Jerry has ever been so much interested in winning an argument or debate per se, but is interested in the measurable results or benefits of any program whatever it may be. CF does have a lot of data on its own sites. It isn't necessarily always scientifically rigourous (confounding factors, control, yada, yada, yada) but the improvements/progressions of individuals are there for all to see.

On the other hand, you've laid out several goals and defined several programs that seem to have been abandoned halfway (I'm not sure if I remember there were defined time periods or goals associated with each experiment) for whatever reason. Be it failure or success, you need to quantify and understand what worked, what didn't, perhaps why and what you would change next time around and how. That's the difference between an experiment and playing around.

Since you've chosen this as your profession, I believe you are being held to a higher standard by some of the people here and need to be more rigorous in your approach and honest at evaluating your plans. That is all.

The difference between an armchair quarterback and even a third string player is that one thinks he knows, the other one knows from experience. (I think others have mentioned this already in slightly different words). I may not care what my prospective trainer looks like, but I want to know that he/she knows how to help me reach my goals from his/her own experience, especially if they are just starting out, rather than paying good money to be experimented on.

[Weib]

err fyi more templates are customized for a sport, you can just pick one and do it.
Soccer program won't have the same emphasis as a hockey one.

I've adapted the templates to fit what i think its best that benefits me. As i said, i have nothing to prove to anyone and my opinions on CF will always be the same until further revised, so you can keep your money.

I will however aim for gold out of my standards to try to improve my performance which is what i set out to do this year for myself as an personal aim, but even i did(or didn't) nothing will change with my views.
____________________________________
reply to keith

I think what may lack is the drive for something in the past to aim for something, because there was so many thing to try out and one can get easily distracted. I was not an athlete nor was i a coach/apprentice of a sport so my focus was rather dispersed.
As you get more advance into what you do, the choices become fewer and fewer hence you're able to eliminate the noise and head for the jugular.

I played around for 1 year gather up what i could cause i knew close to nothing, now I'm revising what i learned and trying it out again.

I admit, nothing yielded substantially to prove anything but I'll try harder this year to put a system in place as my life is more stable now compared to the turbulent year 2008 was.

There is room for me to grow and improve and there will always be ways to make mistakes to learn from, a continual process =)

[galapogos]

So, Louis, are you still in your "playing around" stage or are you ready to do some "experimenting"? Playing around is fine for the rest of us gym rats since it's only our hobby, but you're a professional, so you need to know what you're doing. And hence more rigorous experiments are needed.

If you're ready to experiment, then pick a goal(fat loss, strength, athletic performance, whatever) and focus on it. You like to say this a lot so I'm throwing it back at you - "what your goal?"

[KEVIN LIM]

Ok Louis I just want to understand and help you. I was where you were before if not worse (30% BF, hypertension in 2001). Tell me honestly, is CF too daunting for you? If your answer is yes, I can tell you its not. Jerry has been repeating over and over again, Mechanics of Movement then Consistency then Intensity. There is a proper route to progression and its not like "here-is-how-its-done-since-you-have-relative-good-form-okay-now-do-20-reps-for-time-then-run-another-400m-and-do-another-20". Its not like that at all Brudderrrrrrrr. You have tried so many programmes already, what have you got to lose if you try CF....... (just to reassure you) I have been CFing and coaching all my clients
(from various background and any possible medical problems you can think of, one of them is a 58 yr old man with 3 ballons in the heart, at least 3 of them with reconstructed knees, torn rotator cuff, L4+L5 degenration and list goes on ) using CF for the past 1.5 year and no injuries AT ALL.
I am in no way saying I am good, I just sincerely want to share this "great news" with you bro. There is no joy in me having a great tool and not sharing with the people I care, yes I am calling you my bro so please let me reach out to you can?

[Bryan]

just do it... look at me.... i am so skinny.....

[Weib]

my focus now has been rehab and my work is with general fitness clients. My approach of things has always been towards the rehab side of fitness and getting people to move better and giving them back their ability to use their primitive patterns. But it does entails many other factors in a holistic approach - diet/strength/fat loss/physiological/pain relief etc. Until my responsibility changes, my methods will gradually progress.

I've done FGB, met con ninja, isn't that trying CF? I've been actively participating in 300 also but that's just me.
So you cannot say i've not done it before, because i did and still am participating in the event.

Just that i don't feel a point in actively endorsing a system (which doesn't mean i can't do it for fun or should think highly of it) moreover rolling it out to people who needs to move better and eliminate their aches and pain which overall will and have improved their quality of life, this is my personal training philosophy as a trainer.

So I'm not afraid to try or should i say do it, don't get me wrong on that.

[galapogos]

my focus now has been rehab and my work is with general fitness clients. My approach of things has always been towards the rehab side of fitness and getting people to move better and giving them back their ability to use their primitive patterns. But it does entails many other factors in a holistic approach - diet/strength/fat loss/physiological/pain relief etc. Until my responsibility changes, my methods will gradually progress.

I'm not talking about your professional goals and focus. I'm talking about your personal ones. The one that you log in the "training logs" section. You have had "speed research", "IPPT training" and then "fat loss" training logs. So I'm just wondering where you are now? Which is it? Like your old signature said, most people can't do well at more than 1 thing at a time. So pick one, focus on it, and then see what kind of results you can get by really practising what you preach. You might surprise yourself, and many of us. You've got nothing to prove to us, but at least prove to yourself that you can do it...that the things you teach really do work.

[Sufian]

Tell you what, I will make you an open challenge and put my money where my mouth is.

If you can post a program from strengthcoach.com and actually follow it, and log your results and get a gold ippt pass before dec 31 2009, then I will give you S$500 in cash.

Hows that for motivation?

Jerry, can I do this experiment too? $500 cash is good money.

I don't mind going through the program from anywhere.

[h]

shit for $500, i'll pass in 2 weeks...

but anyway...............................i think louis is missing a point here? (or i can't read)
this (at least this thread) isn't about CF vs whatever, or making fun of you, or whatever...

well, actually...the biggest insult is the $500... basically jerry is suggesting that since you can't get yourself into shape, he'll provide the motivation for you.
he doesn't give a shit how you do it...

...and 'not having anything to prove to anyone'...you're probably wrong about this.

[M.Hunter]

WEDNESDAY 090121
For time:
15 Handstand push-ups
1 L Pull-up
13 Handstand push-ups..........
......
1 Handstand push-up
15 L Pull-ups

this one looks challenging. but quite hard to perform perfect form 15 LPUs man. And also, if those HSPUs are free handstands, even harder..

[galapogos]

Tell you what, I will make you an open challenge and put my money where my mouth is.

If you can post a program from strengthcoach.com and actually follow it, and log your results and get a gold ippt pass before dec 31 2009, then I will give you S$500 in cash.

Hows that for motivation?

Jerry, can I do this experiment too? $500 cash is good money.

I don't mind going through the program from anywhere.

You cannot. You already get gold!

[Bryan]

Tell you what, I will make you an open challenge and put my money where my mouth is.

If you can post a program from strengthcoach.com and actually follow it, and log your results and get a gold ippt pass before dec 31 2009, then I will give you S$500 in cash.

Hows that for motivation?

Jerry, can I do this experiment too? $500 cash is good money.

I don't mind going through the program from anywhere.

You cannot. You already get gold!

how abt me?? I Ish weak n skinny...

[lips]

can i?

i am only silver, 2.4km timing is 11:30+ and my left knee is injured atm.


just kidding, but it's good for you to motivate louis. heh

[KEVIN LIM]

You see, all your brudders all behind you, come on bro lets do it. Stay with me, all the way for the last 400m (SLAP BACK, SLAP BACK, SLAP BACK)

[h]

uh? 400m?
sorry, didn't know it involves distance over 20m. i'm outta here.

[jerry.mobbs]

err fyi more templates are customized for a sport, you can just pick one and do it.
Soccer program won't have the same emphasis as a hockey one.

I've adapted the templates to fit what i think its best that benefits me. As i said, i have nothing to prove to anyone and my opinions on CF will always be the same until further revised, so you can keep your money.

I will however aim for gold out of my standards to try to improve my performance which is what i set out to do this year for myself as an personal aim, but even i did(or didn't) nothing will change with my views.
____________________________________

Okaaaay......

So you don't want the money......

But you will aim for gold?

How does that work?

Heres my hypothesis.

You have no idea what your doing, your playing around with stuff you learn on the internet despite the fact that its not delivering any results.

Tell you what, I'll double up the challenge to S$1,000 that you cannot get ippt gold by 31 dec 09

After all, you said you'd aim for it. So your gonna do it right?

If you don't really want the money, then just assume that I have bought 20 hours of coaching that I can delegate to anyone I see fit? Does that feel better?

Are you going to man up and accept the challenge or just pussyfoot around the edges as always?

My only restriction is that your not allowed to follow crossfit wods and eat the zone in order to get ippt gold in 09, and after you fail to get ippt gold in 09, you HAVE to follow crossfit.com for 6 months and post your results on line

[jerry.mobbs]

WEDNESDAY 090121
For time:
15 Handstand push-ups
1 L Pull-up
13 Handstand push-ups..........
......
1 Handstand push-up
15 L Pull-ups

this one looks challenging. but quite hard to perform perfect form 15 LPUs man. And also, if those HSPUs are free handstands, even harder..

for l sits, you scale by bending the legs at the knee to reduce the moment

for hspu, you hook the feet over the dips bar to assist

[jerry.mobbs]

At some point watching trainwrecks loses some of the fun factor... you already know how it's going to end.

I don't think Jerry has ever been so much interested in winning an argument or debate per se, but is interested in the measurable results or benefits of any program whatever it may be. CF does have a lot of data on its own sites. It isn't necessarily always scientifically rigourous (confounding factors, control, yada, yada, yada) but the improvements/progressions of individuals are there for all to see.

Absolutely

The same applies to company accounts. They may report things a different way, but at least EVERYONE can see the data and form a view as to the state of the company. This is why some banks say sell a stock and others say buy, despite the fact that they look at the same information.....

[galapogos]

My only restriction is that your not allowed to follow crossfit wods and eat the zone in order to get ippt gold.

This one should be easy!

[galapogos]

uh? 400m?
sorry, didn't know it involves distance over 20m. i'm outta here.

Well you did row for 500m. A 400m run is way easier and faster than a 500m row. Besides, anyone and everyone could use some conditioning, or the "high rep stuff" you know it as.

[jerry.mobbs]

My only restriction is that your not allowed to follow crossfit wods and eat the zone in order to get ippt gold.

This one should be easy!

see my edit

twice the cash if he wins, but a penalty if he fails

you can run a side book one whether he mans up to the challenge

after all, hes going for gold anyway.....

[Weib]

Lol i'm so honored $1k bounty

Looks like i have to pay $200 to employ sufian to train me already