Lifts I Never Did, Used to Do, or Just Started Doing Again

[Mr Enigma]

Mike Boyle's latest article..

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... oing_again

Just read it and I'm like WTF man...

another interesting site.. gotta read this http://www.sportivnypress.com/documents/80.html

[hermanchauw]

KB cleans and snatched should not hurt.

[Derek]

What's wrong with the article? I thought it was a good dose of reality.

[galapogos]

I didn't like this article of his. Doesn't apply to me that much, nor most of T-Nation I suspect.

[h]

i personally didn't like it either...
but that's probably what happens when you need to train more than a few guys at once.

the shit about tire flip... something along the line of 'not too many guys have hip mobility to do it'... isn't it kinda his job to get them mobile?

maybe he needs more assistants or something.

[Weib]

he trains athletes not power lifters or strongman.
I agree with his views because it didn't come overnight if you followed SC.com over this period of time, i've stopped back squatting/box squating...
Now i'm using SS to teach the squat to people who can't squat properly.

If you're closet PL and a SM, this doesn't apply to you obviously.

[AhBen]

The article does not apply to everybody.

I do ME deadlifts every week.

[h]

don't you agree with his choice of wall paint color?

it seems you never really 'read' anything i type.

he got to:
athletes get pain from tire flipping because they don't have mobility.
the article's title wasn't about mobility, etc, but instead of telling us what he did to improve the mobility, he just said:
'they don't have mobility so i don't let them do tire flip'

i'm not simply singing the praise of tire flip, i was just pointing out that i felt the article was too much about 'avoiding risk' rather than solving things.

and please don't tell us about the decades of experience, blah blah blah, we know.
and i'm not pretending to know all the shit he knows.

[Derek]

I think you have to look at it from his experience and perspective: If an athlete comes to him and only has a limited amount of time to train, he'd want to maximise the benefit-risk ratio, and the tire flip clearly isn't the best in that regard with respect to hip mobility from his point of view. Is this the best strategy? Like what Jerry always says, the results are more important, and in this regard he is successful.

[Weib]

is there really a need for the risk?
If so, how can it be justified in his context?

Everyone can walk, take a bus or buy a car to get home.
All gets you from point A to B, don't necessary need to take the route home on foot...just because. lol

In reality, you won't have time to fix alot of problems...you try your best but theres only so much time and other priorities that you need to get up to speed first.

So its logical that anyone would rather avoid things that throw the spanner into the works based upon efficiency and getting things done.

[h]

i should've known better than to express my feeling against anything mike boyle...

to be fair, he is right, i'm sure, about the choices he made. I don't deny that.

...in any case, it took quite awhile to figure out wtf you're talking about with that 'walk, bus, and car' crap. actually, i probably didn't get it, because i think you got it other way around.

isn't the article about choosing 'walking' over 'driving a car'?
it seems like he is choosing 'walking' over 'driving' because he feels 'driving' is too dangerous for many, and he can't teach how to drive 20 people at the same time or the people don't stick around long enough to learn it.


why did i not like the article?

i have nothing against 'walking.' i chose front/zercher squat over back squat for the reason that it's harder to fuck up than back squat. do i feel they're as good as back squat if strength gain was the goal, not really? but given my condition, i felt it's not really worth pushing it on back squat.

i guess it just came down to this: 'mike boyle won't teach people how to drive'
and i want to 'drive'
(i'm sure 'walking' with him is faster than 'driving' with a lot of other coaches)

is it beause i'm a closet pl and strongman, possibly.
but better that than nothing.

[Weib]

What i've said is that there are many tools in the tool box.
Which what i was trying to reiterate; you don't have to use it if you have no use for it or found something better.
if you like to use that tool and need to use it, then do it.

Mike hasn't found a need to use it and doesn't like it and found a better way to do it, thats all.
That is his perspective and methology to his athletes/PT clients to get stronger in their sport/general fitness.

If you're looking for "hardcore" stuff, then look for Dave or Louie. They're the masters of their sport - Powerlifting.
You've made a fatal implication that Powerlifitng strength is applicable to every other sport which is not.
So you cannot make a blanket statement, that he should fix their hip mobility when there are so many areas to fix and performance is the bottom line with a shortage of time.

[h]

You've made a fatal implication that Powerlifitng strength is applicable to every other sport which is not.

where?

[Weib]

With your initial assessment to tire flipping from which i get the impression that tire flipping is a must to be strong.
I may be wrong, if so i apologize for the wrong implication.

[h]

either my english sucks real bad, or your reading comprehension is..............you probably make shit up in your head as you read stuff...

let's rephrase the 1st post:
mike boyle: "most guys can't throw knives properly, because their wrists are inflexible, so I told them to quit throwing knives."
(I'm making this shit up)
me: "yo mike, isn't it your job to get their wrist working properly so they can throw knives?"

which then lead to the car and walking which of course was misinterpreted.

[h]

now i'm actually worried how you're going to interpret it.

[Canuck eh]

Trust me, it isn't your english...

Since it is immediately after your post, by you, I mean you Yoshida

[galapogos]

I haven't bothered to read everyone's comments, but here's my view
1. If you're in a position like Mike Boyle where you have to train dozens of highly valuable people at once, then yes the choices that he make are certainly logical
2. If you're not, then you don't necessarily have to be that risk averse.

[jerry.mobbs]

he trains athletes not power lifters or strongman.
I agree with his views because it didn't come overnight if you followed SC.com over this period of time, i've stopped back squatting/box squating...
Now i'm using SS to teach the squat to people who can't squat properly.

If you're closet PL and a SM, this doesn't apply to you obviously.

louis trains nfl teams

they are athletes

he has them box squat

who is correct?

[Yxy]

the winning team is correct

he trains athletes not power lifters or strongman.
I agree with his views because it didn't come overnight if you followed SC.com over this period of time, i've stopped back squatting/box squating...
Now i'm using SS to teach the squat to people who can't squat properly.

If you're closet PL and a SM, this doesn't apply to you obviously.

louis trains nfl teams

they are athletes

he has them box squat

who is correct?

[jerry.mobbs]

the winning team is correct

he trains athletes not power lifters or strongman.
I agree with his views because it didn't come overnight if you followed SC.com over this period of time, i've stopped back squatting/box squating...
Now i'm using SS to teach the squat to people who can't squat properly.

If you're closet PL and a SM, this doesn't apply to you obviously.

louis trains nfl teams

they are athletes

he has them box squat

who is correct?

your 'almost' right

its the team that keeps on winning (unless its a life or death struggle of course)

thats why you need to look at both results and injury rates in evaluating programs

everything else is just 'opinion'

[lips]

The main thing is, never let your client do prawn deadlift or farmer walk etc and say "nevermind, it's only a short distance". Of coz, you will never say this to the client. Then tell the client "GOOD!"

[Derek]

What is a prawn deadlift?

[lips]

What is a prawn deadlift?

Deadlift with back looking like a prawn.

[Mr Enigma]

I don't know why is he complaining about powerlifting meets.. The PLers go there to win so they will do whatever it takes to lift the weight which usually results in breakdown of good form.. He is not coaching PLers, is he? Obviously, you don't need to max out all the time thus sacrificing form and increasing the risk of injury.. Just leave as heavy as you can with good form and gradually pile on the weight?

Kettlebell cleans and snatches.. obviously lack of technique?

He doesn't allow Olympic lifts from the ground, the back squat and the tire flip. The most likely reason is lack of mobility, flexibility and/or technique. I think the athletes are missing out on a lot.. Maybe because the athletes don't have the time to work on it? But what about getting better results? Improve their mobility and flexibility which reduces the risk of injury and maximize performance?

[Derek]

Interesting comment from the discussion on T-nation.

"I accept Boyle's reasons for what he does and doesn't do with his athletes. All of it sounds reasonable. What bothers me on this site is the amount of people who delude themselves into thinking they are "athletes," and then drop back squatting, deadlift, etc... because "Mike Boyle said they were bad."

If you're 30 years old and play pickup basketball sometimes, you are not an "athlete." 95% of 18+ people on this site are just dudes who lift weights. So yes, you should keep back squatting, because you don't have to recover for a game or a meet or whatever. "

[h]

my experience is really limited, but isn't it more coached/non-coached rather than athletes/non-athletes?
(and wasn't one of boyle's argument that he doesn't have the ability to coach back squat to 20 people at once?)

if anything, i would think casual lifters with no coaching should ditch back squat.
and most people in the above comment would fall in that category.

[jerry.mobbs]

my experience is really limited, but isn't it more coached/non-coached rather than athletes/non-athletes?
(and wasn't one of boyle's argument that he doesn't have the ability to coach back squat to 20 people at once?)

if anything, i would think casual lifters with no coaching should ditch back squat.
and most people in the above comment would fall in that category.

No, they should learn to back squat.

Find a good coach and get your wallet out. That's all there is to it.

I watched Nicole from CFHQ teach 20 people how to overhead squat in 15 mins and it was truly amazing to see.

You just need to be a really great coach and have a good eye for movement

[h]

...
Find a good coach and...
...
You just need to be a really great coach...

precisely what I was getting at.
don't think most casual lifters have any coaching or any intention of hiring one.

[jerry.mobbs]

...
Find a good coach and...
...
You just need to be a really great coach...

precisely what I was getting at.
don't think most casual lifters have any coaching or any intention of hiring one.

They are not casual lifters then, they are lazy ones