15 march 2009

[Weib]

roger that.
shall slowly convert the kips to standard pull ups.
But 77 reps without kipping and bands is a lil too much.

[galapogos]

kipping pull ups like no kick leh, no wonder my timings all so slow..cause i've been doing standard pull ups.

don't cheat yourself. Timing is just one benchmark of many, and an arbitrary figure in itself. Don't finish faster for the sake of finishing faster.
One day, at the wrong time, the wrong age, in the worst scenario possible, you will be asked to accomplish your very best; that is when you have to rise to the occasion, or at least fail trying.

Well said Bro, I totally agree esp the line, don't finish faster for the sake of finishing faster, make the movement or rep legit.

We missed you and your "no count"s!

[xarope]

roger that.
shall slowly convert the kips to standard pull ups.
But 77 reps without kipping and bands is a lil too much.

No need, the workout specifies kipping, so if you can kip, by all means. I think you've had tremendous improvement in the last few months, don't let my comments (which is not about your performance, just your mention that kipping was "easier") detract from that effort!

[galapogos]

imo kipping convert it from a muscular effort to a metabolic one. yes it's "easier" once you get the technique right, but this also means less rest between your previous and next station, and hence higher heart rate. For strict pullups often people fail coz of muscular fatigue, so they have to rest between reps, hence diminishing the metabolic effect. Of course if you can do 77 strict pullups at once, then this doesn't apply to you.

[Weib]

nah, do what i can do what i must.
step up to the plate for my own sake because i want to push my limits and not for ego or proving anything to anyone.

[KEVIN LIM]

For Kipping pull up, same body mass, moving the same distance only faster. Thus time domain in the power equation is reduced, resulting in an increased intensity which is what CF is about. Increasing work capacity across broad time and modal domains.

[KEVIN LIM]

kipping pull ups like no kick leh, no wonder my timings all so slow..cause i've been doing standard pull ups.

don't cheat yourself. Timing is just one benchmark of many, and an arbitrary figure in itself. Don't finish faster for the sake of finishing faster.
One day, at the wrong time, the wrong age, in the worst scenario possible, you will be asked to accomplish your very best; that is when you have to rise to the occasion, or at least fail trying.

Well said Bro, I totally agree esp the line, don't finish faster for the sake of finishing faster, make the movement or rep legit.

We missed you and your "no count"s!

Will be there this sunday

[xarope]

You can't kip on a door frame. You can't kip whilst hanging off the gunwale of a boat. You can't kip whilst balancing off one toe tip and a tenuous fingerhold or two, off off a 100' incline.

It's not the end all and be all of movements. Just like you wouldn't only do a push press for a vertical pushing movement. And I don't believe Crossfit intends it to be such (although things like attempted kipping pushups and kipping HSPUs do exacerbate the situation - yes yes, I know they are also attempts just for fun), just that there seems to be a vehement wave of polar discussion points when this comes up.

I wouldn't mind learning to kip, but the major reason would be to do a muscle up, and it would be considered a poor muscle up under any condition.

[Bryan]

we shall add 2.5kg plates or 5kg plates the nxt time we do metcon ninja...

[KEVIN LIM]

You can't kip on a door frame. You can't kip whilst hanging off the gunwale of a boat. You can't kip whilst balancing off one toe tip and a tenuous fingerhold or two, off off a 100' incline.

It's not the end all and be all of movements. Just like you wouldn't only do a push press for a vertical pushing movement. And I don't believe Crossfit intends it to be such (although things like attempted kipping pushups and kipping HSPUs do exacerbate the situation - yes yes, I know they are also attempts just for fun), just that there seems to be a vehement wave of polar discussion points when this comes up.

I wouldn't mind learning to kip, but the major reason would be to do a muscle up, and it would be considered a poor muscle up under any condition.

The Kip will improve your strict pull up but not the vice versa

[xarope]

The Kip will improve your strict pull up but not the vice versa

I disagree with this absolute statement. I can see the performance improvements going both ways, as well as no performance improvement and negative performance too.

Kipping is not magic, there is physics and physiological mechanics behind it (due to the structure of the human body), and you cannot deny the negative whilst only acknowledging it's positive.

Power in itself is also meaningless, just like VO2 in itself is meanless; we all know this is modal (look at Lance Armstrong convert from biking to marathon running).

[KEVIN LIM]

This issue was brought up during the last certification and guess the only quantifiable way to approach this will be to get someone not exposed to kipping then test his max strict pull up and then get him to kip for the 3 months then do a strict pull up test again to compare results. I know it worked on me.

[nakorius]

Want to use me as subject?

I never kipped before and I don't do pull-ups... except for the occasional try... Hammer grip though.

[Steph_Parker]

Want to use me as subject?

I never kipped before and I don't do pull-ups... except for the occasional try... Hammer grip though.

can do pull ups de prease diam diam rah =x

[KEVIN LIM]

Want to use me as subject?

I never kipped before and I don't do pull-ups... except for the occasional try... Hammer grip though.

The pleasures mine

[Sufian]

I WANT TO BE THE TEST SUBJECT ALSO.

[Bryan]

test on the bbers.....my pullup sucks...

[KEVIN LIM]

Do a max strict pull up test, hands straighten at the bottom and chin above the bar ( no half rep, no cheating)

Learn the kip then do strictly kipping pull ups for the next 3 months then do a max strict pull up test again

The last time I did it was with VJC for month and a half, strict pull ups went up durins a NapFA test at the end of 2 months.
In the 1.5 months of CF trg (twice a week) Kipping was a part of the warm up.

[galapogos]

I WANT TO BE THE TEST SUBJECT ALSO.

chiu confirm must diam diam...

[Canuck eh]

This issue was brought up during the last certification and guess the only quantifiable way to approach this will be to get someone not exposed to kipping then test his max strict pull up and then get him to kip for the 3 months then do a strict pull up test again to compare results. I know it worked on me.

Can I learn to kip in 3 months...

[KEVIN LIM]

This issue was brought up during the last certification and guess the only quantifiable way to approach this will be to get someone not exposed to kipping then test his max strict pull up and then get him to kip for the 3 months then do a strict pull up test again to compare results. I know it worked on me.

Can I learn to kip in 3 months...

Ree learn it in 2 sessions, I don't think you'll take more than that

[xarope]

This issue was brought up during the last certification and guess the only quantifiable way to approach this will be to get someone not exposed to kipping then test his max strict pull up and then get him to kip for the 3 months then do a strict pull up test again to compare results. I know it worked on me.

Yes, but then you'd be biased, since there's no control to say the same person, doing strict pullups during that same time, would not also improve. Therein the problem (sorry to say, but as part of my psych/econ/comp.sci majors I also assisted in a number of journal articles, did 3rd year statistics for both economics and psych, and *shudder* numerical analysis [wherein I answered 1 question out of 7 for the 3rd year paper, and still managed a pass] so we can discuss experimental methodology and statistical analysis till the cows come home).

However, I would say this: if you can't do many pullups (<10), kipping would help, since you could (1) actually do some (2) the actual act of being able to do a full ROM would therefore assist with the pullup proper.

But I seriously doubt that if you could already do 20 strict pullups (as well as other assists), that kipping would help you get to 30 strict pullups (unless, as already mentioned, you are only doing pullups, in which kipping might hit the assists you are otherwise not doing).

[kacie]

i would try, but i dont want no torn calluses.

[galapogos]

i would try, but i dont want no torn calluses.

Tape + chalk = no calluses. I found out the hard way.

[kacie]

i would try, but i dont want no torn calluses.

Tape + chalk = no calluses. I found out the hard way.

will still tear. tried before. i tore my calluse just catching some guy by the jersey when i played rugby.

[xarope]

i would try, but i dont want no torn calluses.

Tape + chalk = no calluses. I found out the hard way.

And you look cute to boot, like the cuddly koala...

[KEVIN LIM]

This issue was brought up during the last certification and guess the only quantifiable way to approach this will be to get someone not exposed to kipping then test his max strict pull up and then get him to kip for the 3 months then do a strict pull up test again to compare results. I know it worked on me.

so we can discuss experimental methodology and statistical analysis till the cows come home).

However, I would say this: if you can't do many pullups (<10), kipping would help, since you could (1) actually do some (2) the actual act of being able to do a full ROM would therefore assist with the pullup proper.

But I seriously doubt that if you could already do 20 strict pullups (as well as other assists), that kipping would help you get to 30 strict pullups (unless, as already mentioned, you are only doing pullups, in which kipping might hit the assists you are otherwise not doing).

Thus there's only one way to find out. I have tried and proven my end of the debate. I'm not sure how you are gonna test the other end of it.

[galapogos]

i would try, but i dont want no torn calluses.

Tape + chalk = no calluses. I found out the hard way.

will still tear. tried before. i tore my calluse just catching some guy by the jersey when i played rugby.

You just have soft supple hands

[kacie]

i would try, but i dont want no torn calluses.

Tape + chalk = no calluses. I found out the hard way.

will still tear. tried before. i tore my calluse just catching some guy by the jersey when i played rugby.

You just have soft supple hands

no thanks to kipping.

[Sufian]

Kevin, teah me to kip properly, CF style. I want to prepare for the CF course.

Next monday I do the max pull-ups that i can. Strict no TUT "bullshit". But I won't disclose the number, except to Phing and Kevin. 2 months u say? ok..